In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. Do you still have these boxes? Two of the agents had backup revolvers (Hanlon and Risner) and both would use them at some point during the fight. which includes rounds from both semi-autos & wheel guns. More recently, the US Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal that would strike down San Franciscos hollow point ban. 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Newsletter Signup Home Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition (BP1075) Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition (BP1075) You will have so many people reading and hearing about you that you will think that you are famous or something. This "reverse taper" refers to the bullet's jacket being thicker at the tip than toward the base, enhancing rigidity which allows the sharp petals to remain largely perpendicular to the wound path, unlike traditional designs where the expanding jacket petals would peel back almost completely behind the expanded lead mushroom. Are Black Talon Bullets armor-piercing? Yes. I generally test new bullets to see how they expand through barriers one is likely to encounter. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck. Just my $.02 after thirty years as a trainer.. Just another reason why 9mm is a doubtful choice for self defense, even though CTD touts this caliber to the max. [15] It is similar to the Ranger SXT series and the older Black Talon design in its structure, and is available in several calibers and loadings. points to a box of the Cop Killer bullets that you used. An example is a 9mm 50 grain JHP that has a velocity of 2000 Ft per second! In the end, Winchester decided to discontinue the pistol caliber line in 1993, and the entire line completely in 2000. McCarthy v. Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc., 916 F.Supp. Killed by two .223 gunshot wounds to the head. Winchester repackaged and renamed the round throughout the years. After that shooting I never took anything for granted again. Were either Platt or Matix ex-military? Unlike most bullets, the Black Talon stays intact, instead of fragmenting on impact. I am in no way an expert, but I think the black talon 180 gr load in 357 is hunting ammunition. No, Im not talking about a 3 letter agency either. What type of background did they have that allowed them to use their weapons with such evil proficiency? Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. Winchester Ammunition 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details. They tend to kinda lose interest in doing anything else than try to breath after that. The second hit the drivers side window post and fragmented, with one small piece hitting Platt in the scalp. Range Report: How Good Is the Smith and Wesson M&P FPC 9mm Folding Carbine? [8] Platt then pulled back from the window, giving Matix opportunity to fire. For ammunition to pass the FBI Test Protocol, it must meet a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin, but no more than 18 inches. I listened to a career paramedic say If someone must be shot, shoot them a lot, because the human body can endure a great deal of damage and remain in the fight You sir, have experienced that first hand! AllOutdoor // Black Talon, though innovative and groundbreaking back in the day, is nearly 25 years old. Underwood is the only thing that i trust to keep my wife and kids safe when I am not at home. "Winchester to Limit Sales of Controversial Bullet", by Pierre Thomas, A Tax Debate Focuses on Destruction Science, "WINCHESTER LUBALOX COATED BULLETS FACT SHEET & FAQs]\", Hex Bullet Hi-Jinx: Taurus' capable copper bullet, "In Person; On the Other Side of the Divide", "Black Talons vs. SXT vs. T-Series etc", http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/press-releases/1781067-New-Winchester-reg-Bonded-PDX1-trade-Superior-Personal-Protection-Ammunition/, "An Official Journal of the NRA | FBI Selects Hornady Critical Duty Ammo", "Reeva Steenkamp was standing when Pistorius fired first shot, court told", "US Army's M1153 Special Purpose 9mm Hollow Point Ammo Tested -", "An Official Journal Of The NRA | M1152 & M1153: The Army's New 9 mm Luger Loads", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Black_Talon&oldid=1150014565, This page was last edited on 15 April 2023, at 20:52. Now additional rounds that struck muscle tissue did major tissue destruction and one in the arm shattered the bone and almost severed the arm ending the battle and even that round failed to exit. [8][25], Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. Stay Tuned to the RE Factor Tactical Blog and be part of this all VETERAN-run website. At the end of a nearly five-minute shootout and over 140 rounds fired, five FBI agents were wounded and two (Jerry Dove and Benjamin Grogan) were killed. They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes. [16], Doves 9 mm pistol was rendered inoperative after being hit by one of Platts bullets. Glock 26 Hornady Critical Defense / Gold dot 115 gr / Barnes TAC 115 +P They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with flesh. Visit our Amazon Influencer Page for more products we recommend:https://www.amazon.com/shop/refactortactical, Your email address will not be published. With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. Please be respectful of others. In a shootout with two bank robbersWilliam Matix and Michael Platteight FBI agents, mainly armed with .357 Magnum revolvers loaded with .38 Special went up against Matix and Platt armed with .223 Remington rifles and shotguns. The 5 Most Controversial Handgun Rounds | OutdoorHub Needless to say, Jihawg Ammo quickly found itself the target of criticism and even derision from much of the gun owning community. I think for defense most people use the 125 gr jhp or 158, something like that. This Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. On the more expensive side, the Cor-Bon solid copper DPX in any caliber is a also good self-defense round. Wish I could write this well! All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. The Black Talon Story | Springfield Armory Forums Additionally, it must penetrate clothing including heavy jackets, denim, and leather. handgun Ammo black talon | Best handgun Ammunition black talon Glock 30 Gold dot 200 gr +P / Critical Duty 220 gr +P / HST 230 gr +P We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. They are continually coming out with them in new calibers. boxes. Not exactly sure what to do with one round none of my guns could eat at the time, the Black Talon was soon forgotten and lost in the black hole I call a car. Ranger "Talon" ammo for a while, was also marked SXT on the box, but the bullets themselves were not the same bullet . 22 years old. Black Talon Ballistic Gel Test ** 45 ACP & 10mm ** - YouTube Support Veteran Journalism . Review: Hi-Point JXP 10mm An Overgrown Yeet Canon Thats a Lot of Fun! In todays offerings, I feel that the most important thing is guaranteed quick expansion, because the FPS on pistols is nowhere near a rifle. In fact, for the first two years Black Talon was on the market, it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine. However, after medical examiners performed autopsies on the bank robbers bodies, it was discovered that one bullet stopped just less than an inch from the heart. To keep it fair, we havent included anything too out of the ordinary, and everything listed below can be found for commercial sale. He fired a .357 Magnum revolver at agents Ronald Risner and Gilbert Orrantia, and was shot a fourth time when turning to fire at Hanlon, Dove and Grogan. Many in the firearms community noted the latter hollow point round is conspicuously similar to the Ranger T/ Black Talon, in response Winchester largely avoided the question, saying that despite obvious similarities the round was designed to "maximize performance based on the government specification set out in the request for proposal. The Black Talon was a "HollowPoint" and expanded upon impacts. Describing the round, South African police ballistics expert Captain Christian Mangena explained: It hits the target, it opens up, it creates six talons, and these talons are sharp. Right after the "Banning" of Winchester Black Talons-the developer of that bullet changed companies to "Remington". A fictionalized version of the Black Talon bullet called the "Black Death" is utilized by Hank Schrader to kill Marco Salamanca in the Breaking Bad episode "One Minute". The core is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance. This is original 44 Mag Winchester Black Talon 250gr. The 230gr JHP manufactured by HOP Munitions results in a slightly slower FPS of 876 FPS but offers a greater downrange energy of 392 ft/lbs. Due to all of the controversy, the Black Talon has now become a notorious legend of almost mythical proportions. Mireles fired four more rounds at Platt and Matix, but hit neither. McNeill fired over the hood of Manauzzis car but was wounded by return fire from Platts Ruger Mini-14 rifle. Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. The hollow point cavity dimensions and angles of the meplat were altered to enhance reliability of expansion, though the basic "reverse taper" design pioneered by the Black Talon was retained. It is a very devastating looking wound channel. When firing at someone firing back rest assured you want everything to end quick or sooner or later you will catch a round. 's blog. Of the ten, only one, Special Agent Manauzzi, did not fire any shots (his firearm was thrown from car in the initial collision), while only one, Special Agent Risner, was able to emerge from the battle without a wound. The FBI has awarded Hornady with a fixed price indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity (IDIQ) agreement for its 9mm +P 135-grain Critical Duty ammunition. Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. I absolutely love this ammunition. I bought them before they were not so infamous. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING VETERAN JOURNALISM - JOIN SOFREP+ MUCH safer for firing in a small home. The lawsuit, however, was dismissed. A great go-to self-defense round in any caliber is the Speer Gold Dot. *Lighting a path to truth* Former Navy JAG Worldwide U.S. Military Defense. As a result, the FBI began the search for a more capable sidearm and more effective ammunition. Of course, with a normal round, a Teflon-coated bullet has no advantages overa conventional bullet when striking a protective vest. Your ammo is approx. Injured by shrapnel and debris produced by a .223 bullet near miss. I shot a male approx. Other than the collectibility of the Black Talon, the author is definitely right about other ammunition being just as good and some even being close to identical just by a different name (I like the SXT round reference.same exact thing..lol). If you want either round, SGAmmo has plenty at decent prices. Winchester Black Talon 9mm 147gr Sxt Ammo 2 Full Boxes (40 Rounds Black Talon handgun ammo production was halted in 1993. Risner and Orrantia, observing from the other side of the street, stated that they did not see Platt leave the car and fire at Mireles. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. Killed after being shot six times. Barrett is the world leader in long-range, large-caliber, precision rifle design and manufacturing. A 4 Sig and a 4.5 S&W both worked well. Think a little bit harder/smarter. While the suspect was wearing only a T shirt the round penetrated the sternum and failed to enter into the vital organs. Minor injuries from shotgun pellets. Probably. Sell your 357 black talon ammo for FREE today on GunsAmerica! However, sometimes the public or national media sees it as too lethal, and thats where the controversy starts. "These are bullets that are strictly used to maim and kill". A 5 1911 gave the most impressive-looking bullet expansion Ive ever seen. The cartridge provided additional ammunition (so to speak) for gun control advocates to rally against civilian gun ownership while other critics focused on the Black Talon name. The reverse taper refers to the bullets jacket being thicker at the tip than at the base. Or it had been at one time. This expansion creates a larger wound channel. This is simply a brilliant piece of work. 12 Reasons Why Black Talon Is The BEST Exotic In Season Of The - Reddit On expansion, the bullets unsheathed sharp talon claws that looked like a buzz saw. How rare is this 9mm Black Talon? I was given this box by my - Reddit Even now, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive round and search for its modern day equivalent. [15], Platt fired one round from his Mini-14 at Risner and Orrantias position, wounding Orrantia with shrapnel created by the bullets passage, and two rounds at McNeill. If you are as clueless as I was, the Black Talon is a self-defense round manufactured by Winchester in the early 90s. We have to portray an image of conscientious awareness to go along with our situational awareness. Winchester Ammunition has developed a bullet that was specifically designed to perform better than other hollow-point missiles. Quite a few years ago, an IDPA shooter handed me a shiny silver cartridge with a black bullet and said, Dont lose this. In the end of the nearly five-minute shootout, five FBI agents were wounded and twoJerry Dove and Benjamin Groganwere killed. Hollow points are designed to rapidly expand after hitting a target, causing as much damage as possible and reducing the chance of overpenetration. And no, these rounds were not armor-piercing, despite what urban legend says. San Francisco's Black Talon Ban Comes a Little Too Late I was pretty bad at first, too. . Buy WINCHESTER BLACK TALON 9MM 147GR SXT AMMO 2 FULL BOXES (40 ROUNDS) : GunBroker is the largest seller of Pistol Ammunition Ammunition All: 984252181. The Infamous 9mm Black Talon! - YouTube FACTORY ORIGINAL WINCHESTER * BLACK TALON * AMMUNITION 45ACP 230gr. They actually became friends in the Army. Winchester Black Talon.357 Magnum Ballistic - YouTube The little blue ball keeps the hollow point from clogging, and when it opens its like an itty bitty shotgun shell, full of balls. Of the eight agents at the scene, two had Ithaca Model 37 shotguns in their vehicles (McNeill and Mireles), three were armed with semi-automatic Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistols (Dove, Grogan, and Risner), and the rest were armed with Smith & Wesson revolvers. [9], Manauzzi was wounded when Platt fired several rounds from his Ruger Mini-14 rifle that penetrated the door of Manauzzis car. This ammo was considered to be the most deadliest ammo ever made. The most recently released roundon this list, G2s Radically Invasive Projectile (R.I.P.) Introduced officially in 1991, this hollow point round is especially famous for its unique-looking projectile. Manufacturer. Be sure to follow us onFacebook,Instagram, andLinkedInfor exclusive content and deals. If you have a mushroomed slug driven into your chest, you wont feel any better if that slug is all blunt around the edges; the wound channel will still be a shredded mess with blunt jacket petals protruding from the edges of the slug. Its Winchester ra9b, the b is for bonded, made for the feds. Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. The most interesting thing about Black Talon rounds is that they are still used today by ######. A hollow-point that hits with over 500fp creates enough hydrostatic compression of the vascular system (regardless of the placement) to cause capillaries in the brain to burst. OutdoorHub // Ideally both! If you were wearing a protective vest the best bullet you want to hit by is an expanding bullet so the material in the vest absorbs the energy. A jury of your peers, and not a knowledgeable jury with respect to ammunition, will hear those words He loaded those Cop Killer Bullets into his gun and just waited for the chance to use them. Your claim of Self-Defense now becomes premeditated murder! For the prestige of having and carrying the bullets that rip apart the insides after passing through a bulletproof vest instead you have become the evil gun owner. Effective self-defense requires ammunition that provides consistent expansion, optimum penetration, and superior terminal performance. The bullet, fired by Risner or Orrantia, penetrated Platts right forearm, fractured the radius bone and exited the forearm. In all actuality, it was a special black coating with the purpose of preserving barrel life. The federal ban on armor-piercing pistol ammunition uses only the composition of the bullet's core to determine legality. 2023 The SOFREP Media Group. Despite its unique design, the Black Talon was found to be comparable in performance to conventional hollow-points. [5] The round quickly developed a reputation as a very effective expanding bullet. BLACK TALON * AMMUNITION 45ACP 230gr. SXT - Guns International In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. Where the Gage-class did resemble its cousin, however, was its heavy armor--the . That D.A. I have 2 full boxes that I would gladly sell. Thanks Suzanne. I am currently waiting on the 40 S&W round to come out. I was on duty that morning in Miami and heard it go down on my police radio Since it was being dispatch County wide as it was happening, After that day and event and listening to Sgt Dave Rivers who was in charged of MDPD crime scene unit give a detailed account of the events that took place and all the things that happened surrounding it I vowed I would let myself be outgunned. For 9mm or .45 ACP, try Hornady Critical Duty. In the shootout, the eight FBI agents were mainly armed with Smith & Wesson Military and Police .357 Magnum revolvers shooting .38 Special +P ammunition. Test results are generally given in terms of expanded diameter, penetration depth, and weight retention. Misconceptions abound regarding these bullets, and you might even hear phrases likeits overpowered, its specifically designed to kill people, or strangely enough, its armor-piercing.. Box 378 Red Hook, New York 12571 United States. Advanced The Critical Duty FlexLock bullet incorporates two revolutionary Hornady features to deliver superior barrier penetration and consistent performance. I was honored to meet him 4 more times. Your email address will not be published. The 10mms travel at 1600fps with 767fp of muzzle energy, the .357 Sigs travel at 1550fps at 614fps muzzel energy. Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the Black Talons demise. Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. made waves when it was released. it's about the bullet expansion :)Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle. Washington Takes Oppression of Gun Owners to New Lows, Finding a Firearm: My Wifes First Pistol, Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Cant Live Without. I had the chance to see countless 1,000s of spent rounds in all calibers & brands carried by LEOs. Black Talon has a black bullet with six serrations at the nose seated on a shiny nickel-plated cartridge. It has to be just as sharp and just as prepared. However, not many would recommend spending the money unless you are a collector or a sucker for nostalgia. Seven months later, Gian Luigi Ferri loaded his gun with Black Talon ammunition and walked into a law office in San Francisco, California, killing nine people. While its black color and petal-like constructiongave it a very distinctive look, the rounds performance was roughly on par with other hollow points. Below is our list of the top most controversial brands or types of handgun rounds. I own a lot of the DPX and EDC it, but those magazines dont go aanywhere near my nightstand. The black appearance was due to the oxidized copper jacket. Ive seen enough well-practiced shooters fail in a simulator to validate this (at least for me). 200 lbs. Manufacturer to Withdraw Controversial Ammunition I carry a descendant of the Black Talon, Q4364. While standing in the courtroom trying to plead Self-Defense when a sharp anti-gun D.A. You can use it in melee, like a normal sword, but you can also shoot void projectiles. Yes there are a whole lot of new gun owners since 2019. Shooting a .357 black talon at some ballistics gel. In fact, for the first two years, Black Talon was on the market it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine for its effective lethality. A strange thing happened when I shot multiple Hornady Critical Duty rounds through ordinary pine lumber 24s, backed by sand/clay. I once worked at a large LEO pistol & rifle range for several years. When the Black Talon expanded, it resembled talons, essentially creating a massive wound channel. Glock 23 Gold dot 165 gr / HST 180 gr / Silver Tips 155 gr But it seems that they maybe more Gun Owner In Name Only. I still see students in my Concealed Carry Classes who buy the gun, get the permit, then put the thing up on a shelf in the closet never to be seen again. Platt rounded the rear of their car and killed Grogan with a shot to the chest, shot Hanlon in the groin area, and then killed Dove with two shots to the head. The two bank robbers (William Matix and Michael Platt) were armed with a Ruger Mini 14 chambered in .223, 12 gauge shotguns, and .357 revolvers. The collision knocked off Grogans glasses, and there is speculation his vision was so bad that he was unable to see clearly enough to be effective. Our Honest Review, How To Buy Guns Online: Armslist Firearms Marketplace, Best EDC Medical Kit Buyers Guide [2023], Best 9mm Competition Pistol: Faxon FX19 Hellfire. (A claim disputed by the FBIs Medical Director, who stated that Grogans vision was not that bad.) What are black tipped bullets? No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. 4/12/2023. I really like Hornady ammunition but like several that I know along with others that have commented having the same results with Hornady Critical Duty/Defense not expanding as it should, have switched to Federal HST rounds for EDC. As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Doves 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. My love of sharp things extends to all kinds of edged weapons, be they small, large or on a stick. The round is a traditional hollow point bullet, but with a then-innovative reverse taper (the bullet jacket is thicker at the tip than at the base) and a Lubaloxnot Tefloncoating. Most completely ignore the second considerationhydrostatic or hydraulic shock. Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition for sale. Consider if you will, actually using the Black Talon or its equivalent. Every time I see reference to that shootout it takes me back to that day. Unlike the Black Talon, for whichnegative media attention caused the discontinuation of the line, G2s R.I.P.
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