One with the sticker decal and one without. Placing most of his attention to junior golf. I just had a guy show me a wedge that is a small diamond shaped club with about a 3/4 hollow core in the back that goes up to the inside of the face of the club. Their original design was a smaller headed Tony Penna model Innovator, they became the n1 and then the Bears came out when oversize irons hit the market. These irons actually performed quite well and had many copy cats of it down the road to prove itincluding another iron that made the list at #12 Slotline Lowpro iron and the Titleist Super Slim irons. Bought a set for $25 as to help out a young lady with cancer. [4] Barber earned a living primarily as a club professional like most of the touring pros of his generation; he worked at Los Angeles' Wilshire Country Club. The Executives were the bomb back in the day. Tommy Armour TI 100 need to be on the list, they were twice the size of any other iron produced ever. Jerry Barber, age 45, won his only major title in an 18-hole Monday playoff by one stroke over Don January, 67 to 68. 5.0 out of 5 stars based on 1 product rating (1) $278.99 New; $259.99 Used; That means providing you with equipment reviews you can trust, Great collection! I have not 1 but 2 sets of Browning 440 irons. The result is the easiest-to-hit long irons ever. Hmmmare you wondering why all irons arent made out of titanium then? Peter lived in Ridgefield,Ct. Im a scratch golfer, and to date have found nothing that is better. (Cavity back blades???) They definitely arent the prettiest of clubs but I did enjoy playing them. Of course, it is the Indian not the arrow to some extent, but he does well. addy139279813deb368eadb9af00b7c8e959 = addy139279813deb368eadb9af00b7c8e959 + 'yahoo' + '.' + 'com'; Havent been able to give them up since my Dad died in 99, Does anyone remember a set of irons made in the 80s (I think) that were actually a bunch of small woods, even the PW was made from wood. My first set of irons were the Tiger Sharks.The ball seemed to jump off the face.I still have them.My second set,still in play,are the Vas+.I love them.I hit them a mile high and they feel great.When I hear them calledthe worst irons ever it makes me wonder what the heck Im missing out on. They are nearly in perfect condition. * Note: These irons were designed by Karsten Solheimsure most of you knew that though. In 1966, he portrayed himself in a guest appearance on episode #23 of I Dream of Jeannie. The Ginty, fueron palos adelantados a su poca, las maderas Ginty parecen las antecesoras de las big bertha de callaway, el material del que estaban hechas no poda aguantar las inercias, pero el diseo ya era adelantado a su tiempo. How about the Spalding Exec SE. Something went wrong. They are also perfect in a steep slope due to the curved bottom of the club head. Still use them. WebJerry Barber VINTAGE Jerry Barber Golden Touch #36 Mallet 34" Putter Golf Club Gender: Unisex Dexterity: Right-Handed Model: Golden Touch #36 Lie: Standard Condition: 7 PRICE: Regular price $6.25 Regular price $24.99 Sale price $6.25 Unit price / per Sale Sold out 1 in stock. Barber led after the second round but trailed Don January by four shots with three holes to play in the final round. I have a set of Spalding exec XE love them- I dont play more than 5-6 rounds a year now, but they are so consistant , I could go a year between swings and still play the same- got them back in 1980- ish. My woods are Taylormade Burners 1 & 3, and I have two Mizuno hybrids. BARBER GOLF d JERRY BARBER Golden Touch #32 vintage Flange Putter 35,5", Lynx Jerry Barber Putter #7 Brass Stepped Steel Shaft RH 34.5 Playable Grip, Lynx #1 By Jerry Barber Putter 34 in" Steel Golf Club USA, Jerry Barber Golden Sand Club Steel Shaft RH 34.50 Vintage, Vintage Jerry Barber Golden Touch Pitching Club w/ Steel Shaft 35.5", 1963 PAPER AD Jerry Barber Chick Harbert Alice Bauer George Fazio Golf Clubs, 1957 ADVERT Robbie Robinson Bob Hagey Jerry Barber Golf Clubs, Vintage Jerry Barber Goldentouch Golf Club Titleist ball office home decor, Jerry Barber 1991 Honoree Golf Club Bag Tag Leather Strap Travel TagRare , Jerry Barber Golden Touch 4 Wood ALL Original Vintage Golf Rare Duck. I think this is the web site for me :-). It had a good locking mechanism, and was made for poorer people who could not afford a whole set. WebCarl Jerome "Jerry" Barber (April 25, 1916 September 23, 1994) was an American professional golfer who played on the PGA Tour. In 1966, he portrayed himself in a guest appearance on episode #23 of I Dream of Jeannie.Barber died in Glendale, California at the age of 78, after suffering a mitral valve prolapse and a stroke.Professional Golf Association Tour wins (7) Other wins (5) Other senior wins (2) Wins (1) 1Defeated Don January in an 18-hole Monday playoff, 67 to 68 Results timeline. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. The Ping Zings were the worst! 4 LBS. Bob Rosburg won his only major championship trophy by one stroke over Jerry Barber and Doug Sanders. Well these irons which were designed out in LA by Stan Thompson were made to capitalize on that same concept. The Ginty was the first modern Utility club. Shipping is non-refundable, and the customer is responsible for return shipping. In the late 70s I also had a set of Unique irons which were great apart from the plastic covers covering the cavity back constantly falling out. Dont be ashamed thoughsome of these designs have actually been pioneering for the industry. So for those of you who own a set and are fellow collectors of the ridiculoustoday is your day to shine. Through our I played a set of Mags for years until I got to where I could not swing fast enough to bend the stiff shafts. Weird thing was I could hit the XL-4 long irons better and the Executives better from 7-PW. The strangest set I play with at the moment is a matching set of 3 through 15 fairway woods made by Protactic Golf in Chicago (part of the remains of Northwestern Golf, I think). I know that this is a very late reply but I actually knew the designer of these irons and spent time speaking with him. Say what you will but I own a set of Ray Cook Titanic irons. TNTCOWTOWN. His passion started at a young age from the influence of his grandfather Jerry Barber (PGA Champion in 1961) and his father Tom Barber who are both SCPGA Hall of Fame members. He would hold up the club so they could see the 7 on the bottom and with a big grin say I hit a 7 iron. Gene Littler (1961), Julius Boros (1963), Jerry Pate (1976), Steve Jones (1996), Michael Campbell (2005) and Lucas Glover (2009) won after advancing through final qualifying. Of course Drivers and putters are like women. Note: Barber never played in The Open Championship. Jerry Barber In Golf Clubs for sale | eBay I became a +2 handicap using those irons, and a lot of people scoffed at them early ontill they saw me hit them. What about Pax (Paul Goydos promoted them)? Kind of reminds one of the Hogan radial but not near as wide on the soul. Just found and bought a set of Lil David Slingers. Jerry Barber won the 1961 PGA Championship after forcing a playoff through an all-time great display of pressure putting. He was 45 years old, which, at that time, made him the oldest golfer ever to win a professional major. Barber was also on the shorter side in height, variously listed at from 5-foot-5 to 5-foot-6. But they seem to work though. But the funky look kept me from ever thinking about buying a whole set. Jeffrey caddied on the champions tour for many players such as Jeffry Barber, Jerry McGee, Charlie Coody and Jim Dent to name a few. Web38 results for golf clubs jerry barber. - Best Selling in Golf Clubs. money, time and performance. I love it but was told it is no a legal putter. The chrome Browse our daily deals for even more savings! They are similar to the Nike slingshots as they have a powerbow looking thing on the back of them. My wife says I never met a strange-looking golf club I did not want to own and play with. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. i think special t golf was the only people dumb enuff to handle these. I cant believe to Ping Zing 2s are on the list. Jerry Barber Golden Touch shank-proof irons (BeCu, ideally) Powerbilt TPS with the Goalpost Alignment System And I agree with a previous posters suggestion of the only problem I have had{although the have to be at least 30+ years old},is graphite cracks. Long irons with shallow faces, little offset and perhaps slightly softer shafts can be quite playable. I still have the samurai irons,2-pw and woods,driver,3w,5w,7w,,and still use them. Every time I take it out of my bag for some new modern wedge, I go back to it a few weeks later. Sponsored. They are a blade from the early 80`s. Placing the hosel behind the face eliminates the occasional `shank, creating forward-face progression. I have a 3-15 wood set that are fun to play with. Anybody know anything? Barber It has an original looking steel shaft and a nice older Pro Only grip. Winners. I have a Simmons Great White Shark putter with a 7 blade. I remember a set called Canon I think, possibly a Spalding brand. Upgraded my driver from R7 to Razr Hawk, but will never surrender my Slingshots. WebJerry Barber Practice Swing Driver Weighted Golf Club Training Aid Swing Trainer 2.5 miles away from Tommy Barber Golf. He had seven wins on tour, including a major title, the PGA Championship in 1961. He was a pro at having fun when he played golf! 179.00. WebUsed Lynx Jerry Barber Blade Golf Putters $14.99 USD Calculate Shipping or 4 interest-free payments on orders over $35 with Estimated Delivery Thu 4/13 - Mon 4/17 0 Favorite Make Offer Shop Safely with SidelineSwap Buyer Protection Have One to Sell? WD = Withdrew WebNew and used PING Golf Clubs for sale in Leawood, Missouri on Facebook Marketplace. MacGregor Doctor X. I had the Bears. Lots of wackiness. or Best Offer. The Browning 440 was a marvelous clubas you say off the fairway!!! Shankless Golf Clubs | Jerry Barber Golf Clubs The woods were the strangest looking things. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. unbelieveably so..!! Was: 279.00. The RB880 s by Northwestern are also knockoffs of the Browning 440 s. Find great deals and sell your items for free. I dont think I paid more than $300 for all four sets combined- Im a Salvation Army searcher. PGA TOUR Stats, bio, video, photos, results, and career highlights WebThe Official PGA TOUR Profile of Jerry Barber. I am still playing with my set every week! Overseas shipments can be combined at $3 per additional club. Golf Putters JERRY BARBER M-2 MALLET PUTTER - 35" LONG STEEL FLUTED SHAFT - GOOD CONDITION! Seller pays for return shipping. Carl Jerome Barber (April 25, 1916 September 23, 1994) was an American professional golfer who played on the PGA Tour. Thanks. ", The Ws keep stacking up for Ryan Fitzpatrick, now going viral for this hilarious first day of school photo. Just terribleand never sold thruas well it shouldnt. Jerry Barber's 'Shiftless' Swing Are these considered weird? Loft. Great set. $155 Negotiable. Carl Jerome Barber (April 25, 1916 September 23, 1994) was an American professional golfer who played on the PGA Tour. today. WebThe 1959 PGA Championship was the 41st edition of this major, staged by the PGA of America. Shallow faces (not as shallow as the 440 of course) and less offset than many of the long irons they replace. They play as well as any other set I have a set of Ben Hogan AHS Hybrids and the SW is even a hybrid! You had to turn those over to see the ugly, but the cone in the bottom was down right wacky! Items that are on sale can have trades or store credit accepted up to 20% off the original sales price. Jerry Barber Golden Touch shank-proof irons (BeCu, ideally), Powerbilt TPS with the Goalpost Alignment System, And I agree with a previous posters suggestion of the Spalding Cannon ADVANCE. Im from SD, so I had a set. Brand. Golf This page was last updated: 01-May 01:37. WebCondition: Used, Model: GoldenTouch, Golf Club Type: Iron, Flex: Regular, Brand: Jerry Barber, Handedness: Right-Handed, Number of Clubs: 9, Country/Region of Manufacture: United States, Shaft Material: Steel, Department: Men PicClick Insights - Jerry Barber GoldenTouch shank proof irons PicClick Exclusive Look at many of todays hybrids. Like many of his other unconventional looking but super functional designs for the time this one flew off the shelves. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. I have a set of both the 440s and the 500s, and there is no difference in face depth. - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab, JERRY BARBER GOLDEN TOUCH #99 PUTTER Right Handed Heel Shafted 34" Length Used. WebJeffrey Barber is a golf professional with over 30 years of teaching and playing experience. var addy_textdf5f2c4e695adcf8e6ca7492e4af06a6 = 'joaquin' + '@' + 'debellgolf' + '.' + 'com';document.getElementById('cloakdf5f2c4e695adcf8e6ca7492e4af06a6').innerHTML += ''+addy_textdf5f2c4e695adcf8e6ca7492e4af06a6+'<\/a>'; Estimated Delivery Wed 12/21 - Fri 12/23. Can anyone ballpark an estimate on the value of a set of Samurai clubs? Goldwin was a San Diego company, years ahead of its time. They looked like a full set of hybrids but only lasted a short period of time. SCGA.org | Jerry Barber | SCGA var addy_text7232068d2d2399c9344bb0eaf535eb9f = 'jcmeyer5462' + '@' + 'icloud' + '.' + 'com';document.getElementById('cloak7232068d2d2399c9344bb0eaf535eb9f').innerHTML += ''+addy_text7232068d2d2399c9344bb0eaf535eb9f+'<\/a>'; This is provided that the condition of the returned item is reasonably similar to what was sent. Major championship is shown in bold. Cleveland was giving them away for free if you send in some coupon from golf digest. * Note: These irons were designed by Duke Duclos. I still have them and as a matter of fact I still use a copper Zing2 sand wedge 54. 2 iron sw. Let me know if anyone is interested. Any applicable customs and taxes are paid upfront, so there is no additional cost upon delivery. He shot a 63 at Cypress Golf Club, a public course in Los Alamitos that no longer is there. I wonder what Jack thought of them. They preceded hybrid irons by 20 years or so. I will admit to having a hankering for those slick lookin Zevo Lobs tho. Love it or hate it the Nike Slingshot irons made the list. Jerry Barber Golden Touch - Friendly Forums MESSAGES Friendly Forums > Golf > Alternative Golf Swing Forum > Jerry Barber Golden Touch 2 posts Nels55 5,441 1,007 2 24 minutes ago #1 I have a set of these 2 through 9 if anyone is interested make an offer! Some crazy lookin clubs, Why didnt you include the 1st set of Ping Irons? Complete Starter Set of LEFT HANDED LYNX-USA Golf Clubs features LYNX- USA 1,3&5 Fairway Woods : CompleteSet of LYNX-USA Irons 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,PW,SW with LYNX-USA #8 Jerry Barber Brass Head Putter including Proline Golf Bag. I have a full set of Exec XE irons. Golf InstructorThis email address is being protected from spambots. He recalled that in 1954 he was the fourth-leading money winner with $18,500 in earnings. What the hey. So what did his famous Ginty patent actually mean? Jerry Barber and they wonder why they went out of business. Sold by @blakesgolfshop. Money put a few of these clubs on touralthough that does not mean they were worth a penny. Sold millions of those over the years. It was made by Salt Lake City Specialties. Decent? I speak with Nat Rosassco, former owner, of NorthWestern golf at least every 7 to 10 days and he holds Pat Simmons as one of the best club designers of all time as well. Once logged in, you can add biography in the database. The VAS are ugly, but they work. But unfortunately for the VASs they were dethroned from their long held position. They got so popular at the time that it scared club makers badly (Every set was pretty much custom built then), and Golfing associations banned the club from play. 1951 Waterloo Open Golf Classic He also had some copycat Browning irons in the trunk, but I refused I couldnt even look at them with a straight face. MyGolfSpy, INC. All rights reserved. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); I used to have a set of Ajay Pro Classics that were my dads. Slotline Inertial E-Max irons laying around ? If so send us some picsdont worry we will keep it 100% anonymous ;). Jerry Barber Golden Touch #68 putter is in good to very good condition. These skids are tapered from the leading edge toward the rear of the club head, raising the sole above the ground without raising the leading edge off the ground. VINTAGE Jerry Barber Golden Touch #36 Mallet 34" Putter Golf Club. I recently tried an old Jack Nicklaus 7 iron made by MacGregor many years ago. A BARBER WITH A RAZOR EDGE - Sports Illustrated Vault You find them on eBay Gary? Jerry Barber was a PGA Tour winner in the 1950s and 1960s. Remembered as one of the tour's great short-game artists, he sank a series of long putts over the final holes to force a playoff in the 1961 PGA Championship, which he then won. Barber continued making appearances on the PGA Tour all the way into the 1990s. WebLooking for a golf club that can help you enjoy chipping? It kept some of those out of my bag Im sure. Web2023 Masters Tournament Dates, Schedule, Groupings The 2023 Masters Tournament is the 87th playing of this golf tournament. var addy7232068d2d2399c9344bb0eaf535eb9f = 'jeffreybarbergolf' + '@'; Any of you still have a set of these beauties laying around? I actually have a set of 440s I bring them out every year or two when I am hitting the ball poorly. During his college years he has played in numerous Amateur tournaments and now continues to master his skill in professional events. Still, the Uniques are the best irons I have ever hit! Their president at the time said this about the newly released irons, Titanic irons are the first long irons even God and you can hit. Now that is a bold statement that should of had you guys flocking to purchase these beauties. I had a set of Tiger Sharks(the short irons hit the ball miles).The follow up Great Whites var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to'; :-( WebJerry Barber Golden Touch W Wedge (Gap Wedge) Steel Shaft. $20.00. I just found a set of Slingers at the thrift store for $10. $40. Brand New. But, they were NOS (New Old Stock) and with Ohio State grips and headcovers; so a diehard Buckeye fan. Book A Tee Time: 818.845.00221500 East Walnut Avenue, Burbank, CA 91501, 2023 DeBell Golf Club | Contact Us | Site MapDesigned and Hosted by 121 Marketing. The Spaulding Executive XE for me never looked right They were available in 1-SW (I believe) A friend used to play these and I always suggested using his pitching wood :o) My $.02. 3. What a great list! Amounts shown in italicized text are for items listed in currency other than Canadian dollars and are approximate conversions to Canadian dollars based upon Bloomberg's conversion rates. If you're digging for a pair of golf shoes that'll make your game better not worse, you need to investigate these shoes of the day and make a difference in how you play. Golf R64, R32, R16, QF, SF = Round in which player lost in PGA Championship match play Feel 52* 60* Set Wedge Flex Steel Shaft. Born in Woodson, Illinois, Barber was one of nine children raised on an Illinois farm near Jacksonville, and turned professional in 1942. Jerry Barber Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. Steve Almo Jerry Barber My golf team partner talked me into getting new technology Ping G-20s a couple years ago, & I can not hit them nearly as well. Ugly or unconventional, I felt a more confident with them and Stan Thompson fairway woods. I just found a set of 10 plops slotz. What was wacky about the Bears? Incidentally, Vulcan (Chicago suburb club makers who made some of the earliest hybrids) made a full set of hybrids 3-SW. You have not lived until you hit good hybrid wedges! They introduced the Browning 500 Series to counter that effect.But, they waited too long and by that timethe party was over! Barber earned a living primarily as a club professional like most of the touring pros of his generation. Add to cart Just saw a full set of them again today. Set of 5. Although they did have issues with the shafts actually wrinkling due to the configuration of the shape of the toe on this ironcrazy little factoid. Barber points out, "If you want to get more out of your shots, you must be in position at the top to hit the ball as hard or as easy as you want. Still have the XL-4s in the garage. There are worse things. Decided it was time for me to get some cavity back irons. Callaway 4F021521Y200 Golf Club Iron Set. Jerry Barber Jobs in the United States >>>. Joaquin Herbozo is a PGA Member with experience in the golf industry since 2003. I also have a set of Browning TR600s. PGA TOUR Stats, bio, video, photos, results, and career highlights WebGet the best deal for Jerry Barber In Golf Clubs from the largest online selection at eBay.com.sg. WebBarber earned a living primarily as a club professional like most of the touring pros of his generation. His stuff was marvelous and all original. Sold them to a guy 30 years younger who also loved them. He actually manufactured a set of irons whose heads were literally upside down take an iron, turn in upside down, your top edge now hits the turf, the sole having a hosel. My dad has played a set if vicunas for about 40 years! It adjusts to every loft in a full bag, plus half lofts. Forward-face progression creates a hitting surface 20 percent larger than standard and 5 percent larger than over-sized irons. I collect odd golf items. Great list! The shipping rate is stated in the item detail next to the gallery pictures. * NOTE: Stan Thompson was an interesting guy and a well respected designer. The Sounder irons could be on the list-and are the best irons I ever had (have). His passion for the game started at a young age and he has turned that passion into a career. I dont want to pay the asking prices for individual 440 Plus irons on eBay, so Ill keep my eye out for them at the thrift shops and G-W. Andyou see the Spaulding Executive irons at the Goodwill stores all the time. WebJerry Barber Golf Swing. European shipping is $35.00. Love them oldies. Im 65 and still playing to seven with them. To maintain the limit of 14 clubs in the bag, I change off now and then. Jerry Barber PGA TOUR The player would then conveniently cover the top of his bag with a towel so that no one would see the length of the irons. I was wondering if anyone had ever tried Slotline Classic Copper golf clubs. Used them for about 10-15 years before I switch to 845s. [1] In 1966, he portrayed himself in a guest appearance on episode #23 ("Watch the Birdie") of I Dream of Jeannie. Don Wood has the patent for the Plop Slotz Irons. I have the entire set of samurai woods and irons,,,driver,3wood,5wood,7wood,,irons,,2-pw,dont believe they ever made a sw,,,,and I still use them,,,my fellow golfers are still amazed at the distance I get,,if you want a picture of the set,,let me know,,ill take one and send to you,,, I have the whole set of samurai irons,2-pw and woods1,3,5,7,,still use them,,i have had pros hit them,,and be amazed at the distances over their irons,,,i would like to find another 5wood,if anyone knows where or who has 1,,i, neil,,do you have a samuarai 5 wood,,,hard to find,,,id like one. Item Weight. Too bad. It is the Super Stick. WebThe 1961 PGA Championship was the 43rd PGA Championship, played July 2731 at the North Course of Olympia Fields Country Club in Olympia Fields, Illinois, a suburb south of Chicago. Would the F2 wedges still be legal if the crank were a few inches further up but still keeping the same angle please. Golden Touch, JERRY BARBER GOLDEN TOUCH #99 PUTTER 35" Right Handed Heel Shafted Classic Used, Jerry Barber Golden Touch Pitching Wedge PW Steel Shaft Replacement Club Vintage, Lynx #7 Jerry Barber Golf Club Putter RH 34", Jerry Barber #31 Blade Putter Steel Shaft 33" Right Handed, Vintage LYNX Jerry Barber #7 Putter 87.5cm Playing Length Steel Shaft, Lynx Jerry Barber #7 Putter 35 Steel Shaft RH. Jerry Barber a beginner could really benifit from the Nike slingshot, they are easy to hit. Inventors: Shao-Chun Chen, James P. Gustafson, Jerry Barber BRACHYTHERAPY APPLICATOR CHUCK Publication number: 20070185368 Abstract: The invention provides brachytherapy applicators and brachytherapy applicator chucks configured to reduce or prevent accumulation of blood and other contaminants therein. Just thought I'd share these pictures here which I found cool. I see that a few from my list made it. Couldnt decide between the Slotlines emax and the 845s. Theyre awesome. Got the 3 PW for 3.99 a club, bought the 5- PW first, played two rounds and went back and bought the 3 & 4. And add on Sweet Spot Golf Drivers and the Mac/Burrows Driver. vicunas. Play to a 4 6 cap. [2][4], 1Defeated Don January in an 18-hole Monday playoff, 67 to 68. Barber led after the second round, but trailed Don January by four shots with three holes to play in the final round.Barber holds the record for the oldest player to ever play on the Professional Golf Association Tour, when he played in the 1994 Buick Invitational at Torrey Pines at the age of 77 years, 10 months, and 9 days.He died later that year. View cart for details. Just got Calloway X20s last week. Those Slinger Irons were the brain child of Jim Flood. Jerry Barber I would appreciate any help you could offer! We are here to help educate and empower golfers. The course is located at 13,025-feet. Jim also marketed the first Graphite Shafts sold under the Aldila name. * Note: These irons were designed by Don Wood remember the Plop putterswell they are back at it againyou can check them out here. Way ahead of their time in the perimeter weighted genre. Pat Simmons first wanted to say thanks and also that, You may not know the Pat Simmons name, but if youre a golfer, you know of several of my inventions. Much cheaper than renting. All Irons for men were 37. Shipping is non-refundable, and the customer is responsible for return shipping. Handedness. Some deserve to be on the former, but definitely not the latter! He had seven wins on tour, including a major title, the 1961 Professional Golf Association Championship. Golf InstructorThis email address is being protected from spambots. It was played at Dornick Hills Golf & Country Club in Ardmore, Oklahoma. Winner: Bob Rosburg, 277. Circa 1985-ish if memory serves.
